In order from my last post:
1. Really, Anakin, you are something else. A pleasure chatting with you - very reasonable. I do think your reasonableness borders on slippery, like you've applied Aikido techniques to discussion: you grant me his weaknesses or poor performances then strike from new angles. Whatever: you're not argumentative and that helps make you persuasive. The first sentence of your post is a fluid extension of where mine left off: "A few critics have mentioned that Keanu is a good physical actor, less so a verbal one - he excels on the macro level (the way he moves, action scenes, physical expressions of emotion) rather than micro one (facial expressions, vocal inflections etc)." Good. I can see your point.

Yet I think you're also making mine. One thing I think you misrepresented: I didn't mean to imply that I like it when he opens his mouth. I was saying that I think he is best, when speaking, when he doesn't try to do anything other than say the words. Otherwise, yes, as a piece of movable scenery, he's okay.

As far as his having any remarkable physical presence, I disagree. I think he has discipline, and that his martial arts technique looks strong. I think he's gotten better at standing still as he's aged. But I think he also looked/looks physically uncomfortable in several of his roles. He has particular physical crutches that he uses to try to power through his discomfort. There are examples of those crutches in the link you sent me but more on that below. He was young.

You also ask "what have I seen him in?" Legitimate question and I think from what I'm reading above that I should watch more. I don't think I've seen anything since Matrix - and I was pleasantly surprised by him in that movie, in that I didn't find him annoying and disruptive....because after Dracula and Much Ado and Speed, I thought he lacked talent and intelligence, and that casting him was a purely scenic choice, doomed to annoy me if he was required to speak.

I followed your link to Young Again and yes, I stand corrected: he plays giddy, something I hadn't seen. And there are moments watching him where I think he's kind of adorable doing it. Like a boy wearing his dad's suit. Unfortunately, that scene is a cheap knock-off of Risky Business, not well-written, etc. I also think he shows his discomfort throughout, but as I said above - he's earnest, and he's game. He works hard at showing us joy.

After I watched the Young Again clip, I watched a top-ten Keanu roles clip, and saw a few interesting moments. He looks good in Parenthood, which I recall; almost better than average in the Replacements, which looks like a real canned piece of crap as a movie; less interesting than I remember in Private Idaho; just right in River's Edge. That role shows the best way to use him, playing a sweet, fairly dumb, but somewhat vulnerable and sensitive guy. Watching Ted I realize the reason that role sticks to him is because it seems like a caricature of his usual style. That's likely the reason he's decided to retreat into monolithic monotone - to escape where nature pulls him.

The best thing I watched, actually, was an interview from the time period of Much Ado. He's very expressive and honest, and he's trying hard to sound smart and failing, but he does seem thoughtful and sensitive, which are both endearing qualities. I thought this interview revealed why he generally isn't a good actor - he's trying so hard to layer something else on top of this basic dumb/sweet template. The true, honest Keanu is forever shrouded in B.S. Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKTHBAA3-M

2. Anakin 2nd post down: another cool, thoughtful disarming post.

3. Luca - I like your point, that Neo is acting out his comic fanboy fantasies. Accounts for the swagger. The context of the rescue seems more relevant than the comic book though, and the side to side motion that he uses as he draws the weapons is the same movement pattern that he uses in the Young Again clip I watched, and that he uses throughout Bill and Ted, etc. That's Keanu's physical tick, both a way of displaying something and a way of mitigating something. George Clooney used to have something similar that he did in every movie, a side to side head waggle while making eye contact, like an ostrich or a cobra. He dropped it some point after Batman.

4. Luca - hard to argue. Most of the blame has to be laid at the Wachowski's feet.

5. Luca - haven't seen any of those movies. Thanks, I'll give it a shot. The Netflix cupboard is relatively Keanu-free.

6. Mme Renard - really, Norman MacLean? I have River Runs Through It on my bookshelf: "Logging, Pimping, and Your Pal Jim" is one of my favorite stories. I love MacLean's writing, and I agree with you: he seems to waste no words, saying everything necessary and nothing unnecessary. So...this looks to me like a fairly out-there comparison. As I said way above, I don't accept the argument that Keanu's acting is economical, I think, rather, that he frequently tries too hard. Also - and forgive me in advance - but Norman MacLean's work met nearly universal acclaim, and Keanu Reeves is widely considered one of the worst actors working today. The fact that lots of people think he sucks is one of the reasons this site exists. Try comparing him to the Zen art of calligraphy next. You're a partisan, and you're right, chacun a son gout. What you say in the end is fair enough: I need to see more of his work.

7. Allhailkingjack - by the strictest definition, and I think Anakin might agree with me, I'm not a troll. While it's true I wanted to debate, my purpose was also to understand, because as I wrote above, after seeing Dracula again I had trouble comprehending the existence of this little enclave of yours. Trolls like to provoke emotional responses that are off-topic. I would like to stay on topic and see if I can be moved. Everything you said after 'troll' was appreciated, thanks.

8. Mme Renard - River's Edge, yes, looks good. I evidently have not seen his best work.

9. Luca - fair point re blaming the actor vs blaming the director, no rebuttal. Regarding Keanu demonstrating toughness (and in this case I use the word "demonstrating" pejoratively, as a synonym for "indicating", "projecting", etc...all meaning the opposite of "being" and "feeling"). Here's where I go back to the point I made to Mme Renard: I don't think he's economical or simple in these roles that I am critiquing. I think he's obviously trying to demonstrate something rather than trusting his own truth and the material. And the haircut - he could have also trusted that. The haircut made him look pretty bad ass, he didn't have to work so hard at the rest. You imply that his working hard at it was part of the character. Hmmmm....possibly; an interesting idea. I think if bad acting fits the story, then it works in that particular context, I guess. His poor technique aligned with a particular narrative logic that allowed you to believe that Keanu's discomfort matched with what you might expect the character to feel.

10. Allhailkingjack - no one is more real than Keanu? Well....no rebuttal. As Mme Renard said, chacun a son gout.

11. Mme Renard - I confess I liked Anthony Hopkins, Richard Grant, Winona Ryder, Tom Waits, and even Cary Elwes better than our young solicitor. I see it as some scenery chewing professionals (albeit with varying abilities)vs a severely outgunned junior-high amateur trying to remember his lines. And I think Oldman was wonderfully playful - captivating to watch. Amazing that he did that work in the same room with Keanu. Oldman's performance placed next to Keanu's in Dracula shows a delta skill only eclipsed by Emma Thompson v. Keanu in Much Ado. But as Anakin and others have fairly pointed out above, that was a long time ago.

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Regarding Keanu demonstrating toughness (and in this case I use the word "demonstrating" pejoratively, as a synonym for "indicating", "projecting", etc...all meaning the opposite of "being" and "feeling"). Here's where I go back to the point I made to Mme Renard: I don't think he's economical or simple in these roles that I am critiquing. I think he's obviously trying to demonstrate something rather than trusting his own truth and the material. And the haircut - he could have also trusted that. The haircut made him look pretty bad ass, he didn't have to work so hard at the rest. You imply that his working hard at it was part of the character. Hmmmm....possibly; an interesting idea. I think if bad acting fits the story, then it works in that particular context, I guess. His poor technique aligned with a particular narrative logic that allowed you to believe that Keanu's discomfort matched with what you might expect the character to feel.

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... so basically you're telling us that since he interpreted the scene differently than you would have done, it's 'bad acting' ?
*bats eyelashes*

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the side to side motion that he uses as he draws the weapons is the same movement pattern that he uses in the Young Again clip I watched, and that he uses throughout Bill and Ted, etc. That's Keanu's physical tick, both a way of displaying something and a way of mitigating something.

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Funny, didn't notice that. Noticed a bunch of other mannerisms, but not this particular one. I'll pay more attention when watching, then.

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I thought this interview revealed why he generally isn't a good actor - he's trying so hard to layer something else on top of this basic dumb/sweet template. The true, honest Keanu is forever shrouded in B.S. Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKTHBAA3-M

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Not gonna argue with that.
But, in a fair play spirit, could we watch some of your work in front of the camera from 20 years ago? An audition tape, a demo reel, something? anything?

How would it sound if someone judged *today* your skills and abilities based on something you said/did 20 years ago?

People change. They mature. They grow in their craft. Those who work at it, I mean.

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but rather that the tendency to Demonstrate an attribute (e.g. "toughness") is a hallmark of his performances, and so naturally it shows up in Speed, but you've found a way to link it to his character's reality. *winks*

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Er. Hallmark of his performances - in two out of two action movies you mentioned, yes... but not in the other movies in his filmography (and there are a *few*).
As I said, I watch movies. And characters in said movies. And then I interpret what I see. And yes, what I see is the character's reality. And I know what I've seen. And with each viewing, I see more. (that's another hallmark of his performances. With each viewing, I discover more and more layers.) So what you might see as a performance flaw, I see as a little touch meant to add flavor to the character. And we'll just have to agree to disagree about that.

*smiles*

*sticks tongue out*

Thanks to all you for taking the time to reply to a heretic in a generally kind and thoughtful way. I've gained some insight and a viewing list. If nothing else, I've discovered that fans of Keanu Reeves are a civilized bunch. Much appreciated, and be kind to the fishes.

- Uneak

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You imply that his working hard at it was part of the character. Hmmmm....possibly; an interesting idea.

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There's actually one example where this was the case - Hardball. Critics bashed his performance as making his character come off all weird and borderline schizophrenic, because apparently no human acts like that. But when I read the script, that's exactly how the character was portrayed, and Keanu pulled that off perfectly.

I also find myself grappling with the contradiction of how, even in cases where his facial acting doesn't feel 'natural', it nonetheless manages to convey so much. Perhaps some of that is 'trying too hard', as you say, but it's also possible that some of what Keanu does is create characters who are a slightly bit off from normal human.

as a last point:

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and he's trying hard to sound smart and failing

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The consensus from people who know him and have worked with him seems to be that he's actually highly intelligent (one journalist used the phrase "stealth genius"). It's in fact one of the most frequently used positive terms when people describe him, suggesting they're not just sucking up (because otherwise there are so many other words they could use), and a few have gone so far as to call him one of the smartest people they know. Others have suggested that any impression of him being 'dumb' is partly due to Ted and partly due to how he has problems trying to relate down to the regular human level.

Laurence Fishburne: "I learned my lesson the first time we played a game of chess. We were living in Sydney [filming The Matrix], and I thought we'd have a little game and I'd see how bright the motherfucker was. Beat my ass in 15 minutes and left."

more: http://www.whoaisnotme.net/intel.htm

Unfortunately, it is so easy to be a critic without ample proofs and research:-(

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I thought this interview revealed why he generally isn't a good actor - he's trying so hard to layer something else on top of this basic dumb/sweet template. The true, honest Keanu is forever shrouded in B.S. Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKTHBAA3-M

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That was 1993

2001
http://www.whoaisnotme.net/articles/2001_0203_kea.htm
(video not available online, unless one buys the DVD)

2003
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gyw_Y2O8Og

2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rqIW9SszPg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AgKGyJj_tE

(R)evolution(s)

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For the Matrix sequels, he apparently did some takes a hundred times or more, because it had to be just right - but that ended up robbing his performances of some human quality.

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Having had the pleasure [and pain] to watch him work all day [from rehearsal through afternoon left prior to them finishing for the day]...I think there is something to the too many takes. I would wager his best performances are somewhere in the first 10 takes. After that forget it.. As the day wore on he was clearly beating himself up. Pacing, bouncing, trying to shake it off [literally - shaking out the arms hands, legs etc] and that's his process I get it but still wanted to say "dude, breathe. relax. it's going to be fine."

Just my opinion and I won't know until it's complete.

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I actually got that impression with The Gift, which most people seem to think is his best performance but which I found a let down. But for lots of his other roles he thoroughly convinced me he was that character - like in Constantine.

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I thought the Gift was one of his best performances out there. Another that rates right up there for me is Devil's Advocate - the whole movie is tops for me not just KR's character. Though the representation of Gainesville being a backwater here in Florida isn't exactly accurate. Florida is many things but Gainesville is a nice professional town, due to the University and the mega-research that goes on there. It is very progressive and modern. Anyway.... that's the only beef I have with D/A

Constantine was also fantastic. KR *was* Constantine. So he nailed the character perfectly. Regardless of one's opinion of the movie overall.

Other notable performances - MOPI, River's Edge, Bill and Ted [comedic timing he has; think about it he nailed the role of Ted so fantastically that people to this day think he's that 'guy']

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I liked the movie, but upon subsequent viewings, that scene always plays false to me, and I don't think it's Carrie Ann Moss's fault.

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I do.

Putting aside that this particular issue has more to do with what was written and directed I didn't *believe* her, she didn't move me at all.
So if it rang false the blame is shared all around and not just on any one actor's shoulders.

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Thumbsucker
A Scanner Darkly
Constantine
Street Kings
Henry's Crime
Generation Um

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All those, too. A Scanner Darkly rates on my top 10 movie list. With Trainspotting and a Clockwork Orange among others.

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Another that rates right up there for me is Devil's Advocate - the whole movie is tops for me not just KR's character.

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Similarly, he played a cop in both Street Kings and Speed, both characters had rage in them but the expression of that rage was different. Both were raw but in a different way. In Speed he had a more rookie, young and restless kind of rage but in Street Kings it was ‘i have seen it all’ confidence bordering on arrogance rage. Am sure one might be tempted to put that under the ‘director’s and script writer’s character development skill column but without the actor actually bringing that on to the screen, I wouldn’t have been able to notice it.

He is kind of like an old wine (not in the new bottle type). I feel he has aged beautifully both physically and professionally and the after taste when you turn off your tv or leave the theatre is splendid enough to linger for a long long time. The flavours have always been eclectic which is why, maybe, many are still unsure of the beauty of the taste. Eagerly looking forward to watching John Wick!

as for the flavors... well... this says it all :
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg108/taifunu/IMDB%20stuff/Pippa_NeverShortonFlavor.jpg

PS. neaura - that vas *very* articulate. Better than I could ever write it. :)